lilairen: Today's Irony is. . .

Darkhawk (

lilairen) wrote,
@ 2003-04-25 14:06:00

Current mood:	giggly
Current music:	A Celtic rock interumental from a band I've forgotten the name for

Today's Irony is. . .
. . . having someone who thought that one was a fucking unhelpful idiot on a livejournal community find one's response very useful on alt.poly and complain about the unhelpful idiot on the livejournal community . . . .

Today's debate is: Do I point it out?

(22 comments) - (Post a new comment)

	wcg 2003-04-25 11:12 am UTC (link)
	Oh, I think you should. I haven't yet replied to him, becuase I happen to know the woman he's involved with. She and I have been net.friends for years, and I suspect her view of the situation might be somewhat different. I also wonder how she's going to feel when she reads his post, but that's a separate matter. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	lilairen 2003-04-25 11:19 am UTC (link)
	I may wind up doing so subtly. In a "I still don't think that someone who doesn't want multiple relationships is usefully described by a word that means 'someone who wants multiple relationships'." I saw him mention that she reads the group. . . . (Reply to this) (Parent)

lilairen
2003-04-25 11:37 am UTC (link)

It belatedly occurs to me that my response to the guy inevitably shifted from the comment, too.

I'm really, really bad about connecting names up to things, or retaining data. It takes me a while to assemble a baseline of interaction with someone and actually consistently attach individual events to that person. Sometimes this hurts me -- when people presume that I've retained them and get huffy over the fact that I haven't. Sometimes it helps me, because while I may get royally annoyed at someone, and in fact still be irritated with them, I don't actually remember who I'm annoyed with, so it has no relevance to my actions.

Every so often, someone will do something that forcibly connects up disparate things and gives them context. In this case, adding the context rather detracts. . . .

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	meranthi 2003-04-25 11:12 am UTC (link)
	Depends on how snarky you want to be... With luck, someone else will point it out. Know anyone willing to be a stoodge for you? :) (Reply to this)

	nolly 2003-04-25 11:39 am UTC (link)
	Oh, that's funny. Wonder if he'd ever notice if it's not pointed out. (Reply to this)

	lcohen 2003-04-25 03:58 pm UTC (link)
	i can't find your response in the LJ community. is my computer acting wacky--i even searched the source code? sigh (Reply to this) (Thread)

	lilairen 2003-04-25 10:59 pm UTC (link)
	The thread in question was some while ago. Though I note that he's arguing with griffen about the same point he argued with me over. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	lcohen 2003-04-26 05:57 am UTC (link)
	ah, sorry--i was looking in the more recent entry that was also x-posted to a.p. i missed the earlier wacky hijinks. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	briar24 2003-04-26 09:15 am UTC (link)
	I was going to say "Oh, by all means, do!" And then I read the old LJ exchange. I changed my mind. He's hurt, lashing out because of his pain. Let it be. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	lilairen 2003-04-26 11:53 pm UTC (link)
	More or less what I decided. I think I've finally written off polyamory though, at this point. Too much psychodrama lately. And too many pointless arguments. Sigh. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

briar24
2003-04-27 07:15 am UTC (link)

I hope you'll reconsider.

Let me tell you why.

I'm going to disagree with you: the arguments aren't pointless. They are enormously clarifying. I said this once, and I'll risk annoying you by saying it again: I agree with you, that when you are arguing against someone who is entrenched in his/her position, (or, who is just not very bright), you will not be heard. You are right. Nevertheless, you are being overheard.

Don't underestimate this.

You mentioned once that you are a bit of a poly activist.
You should be.
You are good at this.

You have a real knack for identifying the weak parts of an argument, for teasing apart the issues, for putting things into context, for systemetizing, for using your personal experiences to make a point (and, except for those occasional cranky moments, you generally do it in a non-attacking, not threatening way. In a way that can be heard, by reasonable people). In a lot of these discussions, you are a voice of dissent, a voice from the end of the bell curve, a voice that challenges attempts to make any one poly view/approach/practice a monolith. You're playing a valuable role in all of this.

I hesitate to say all this, because I worry that you think I'm putting you up on a pedestal, or flirting with you. I'm not.

I do admire your writing, and pay attention to it, because it is smart, clear... clarifying. I came into

polyamory and alt.polyamory a few months ago confused as hell. In both forums, your voice jumped out at me. I don't always agree with your position, but I nearly always find that what you write helps me to puzzle out what I think about a particular issue. Sex, jealousy, relationship structures... the reason I was able to post links to your stuff when I wrote to you recently was not because I went looking for them, but because I had saved them. Because they were useful.

New people sign on to

polyamory every day, as confused as I was. You'd be doing them a service by hanging in there and continuing to engage annoying, repetitive, seemingly pointless arguments.

If it makes your belly hurt, if you're burnt out, then of course, do what you need to do. But if you can stomach it... I hope you'll stay.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

lilairen
2003-04-27 09:04 pm UTC (link)

The problem is, I really can't deal anymore. At least not at the moment.

One of the recent stupid arguments wound up with something that, almost incidentally, hurt me fairly badly; I wound up putting enough personal information on the table for a nasty stab to actually hit something with blood in it.

One of the reasons I get into the arguments and actually put effort into them is that I do get invested in thigns. The risk is that I get too involved, it winds up mattering too much, the abstractions aren't abstract anymore.

I suspect I'll look in occasionally. But it's not something I can do and keep the rest of my life healthy at the moment.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

briar24
2003-04-28 08:19 pm UTC (link)

Of course, of course. Health and family trump activism in my book too. I'm sorry to hear about the cuts and bruises.

One of the reasons I get into the arguments and actually put effort into them is that I do get invested in thigns. The risk is that I get too involved, it winds up mattering too much, the abstractions aren't abstract anymore.

I hear you. I've been there. I never was good at keeping the abstractions abstract, anyway.

Heal well.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	lilairen 2003-04-28 09:38 pm UTC (link)
	Though I caught a post in my friendsfriends and replied to that; I'm guessing I'll be around in scattered bits at least. :} We'll see how the scattered bits approach does. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

third world way of reading

briar24
2003-04-29 04:54 am UTC (link)

What you said about all the recent psychodrama made me think about something a friend wrote to me the other day, about taking a "third world" approach to reading. It's what I'm trying to do with

polyamory and

bipolar, as a way to be able to keep reading while trying to avoid taking in so much of the angst (and there is a lot of angst!):

"you know, bell hooks has a great essay about how she was so put off by the misogyny in paulo friere's work...and yet he had so much to teach her about teaching. so she came up w/ a "third world" way of reading. in the first world, people expect their water to be clean and pure; if it isn't, they throw it out. in the third world, people make do w/ what they have: they let the dirt sink to the bottom, then drink the water off the top. i've found that idea very helpful (and use it all the time to help students see that they can still get useful things out of texts that offend them in some way...)"

'twas a powerful metaphor for me. You?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	Re: third world way of reading lilairen 2003-04-29 11:24 am UTC (link)
	Hmmmm. Will think on. (Incidentally, for your data-collection purposes, I'm poly and straight depressive.) (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	Re: third world way of reading briar24 2003-04-29 11:32 am UTC (link)
	Duely noted. and plotted. ;-) (Reply to this) (Parent)

	lilairen 2003-04-27 10:13 pm UTC (link)
	As evidenced by the fact that I seem to have just gotten into an unpleasant argument with one of my partners because this latest stupid, nasty argument has me frustrated beyond my tolerances. sigh (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	Re: briar24 2003-04-28 08:22 pm UTC (link)
	Point taken. I understand. Good luck, DH. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	lilairen 2003-04-28 08:29 pm UTC (link)
	We're muddling through. Surviving. It's an issue that probably needed to be poked with a sharp stick anyway, right? :P Thanks for the good-wishing. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	briar24 2003-04-29 05:01 am UTC (link)
	finds two suitable sticks. Hands you one. Waves said stick in the general direction of those-who-need-a-good-poking-at :-} (Reply to this) (Parent)

	hmmm (Anonymous) 2003-09-28 05:38 pm UTC (link)
	hey you seem like a cool chick! Especially with the AWESOME elf stencil. And mentioning Celtic anything!!!.... you must be really cool :) lol I bet my friend would say the same... I know this is odd, but hey, that's how I am. if you wanna IM or email its Mysteria90210@aol.com bye (Reply to this)

(22 comments) - (Post a new comment)

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